Comments on: Having Trouble Finding “The One” For You? http://afcmin.org/ateam/108/having-trouble-finding-%c2%93the-one%c2%94-for-you Helping plans come together, one post at a time Sun, 03 May 2015 14:00:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.9 By: Anonymous http://afcmin.org/ateam/108/having-trouble-finding-%c2%93the-one%c2%94-for-you/comment-page-1#comment-321 Sun, 22 May 2005 11:41:00 +0000 http://afcmin.org/ateam/?p=108#comment-321 Btw, the polygamy thing seems to be a tangent to an excellent post. Thanks for this reminder Roger!

]]> By: Anonymous http://afcmin.org/ateam/108/having-trouble-finding-%c2%93the-one%c2%94-for-you/comment-page-1#comment-320 Sun, 22 May 2005 11:40:00 +0000 http://afcmin.org/ateam/?p=108#comment-320 I think it is clear Scripture does not explicitly condemn polygamy, even though it clearly teaches the intended form of marriage (two-in-one-flesh, in the beginning, and reaffirmed by Christ). I think God allowed it given man's condition. Augustine writes that the government should not outlaw prostitution because the whole society would break down. Sometimes things are left alone because God works with us as sinful beings where we are. Thank God through His grace we have come to a better understanding of what marriage is.
But I also think the Bible does not restrict our understandings of morality to what is explicitly in the Scripture. That is, I don't subscribe to the view I often hear which goes something like this: “If God didn't take the time to explicitly condemn something in the Bible, then it can't be that wrong.”
Slavery, drug use, cloning . . . all of which can be harmonized rather well with the Bible if we take a Bible-only view.

]]> By: Anonymous http://afcmin.org/ateam/108/having-trouble-finding-%c2%93the-one%c2%94-for-you/comment-page-1#comment-319 Sun, 22 May 2005 05:39:00 +0000 http://afcmin.org/ateam/?p=108#comment-319 Reading the ending of your comment, Amy, more carefully,
So I would say that even though God did not forbid polygamy, we can gather that monogamy was preferred both because of the creation of one woman for Adam and the statements in the New Testament that the men in leadership should have only one wife each.

captures what I believe scripture to be recording.
I believe monogamy is at least inferred from exactly the passages you are describing. I also agree with you that God did not appear to be forbidding polygamy, though the problems with it are evident in scripture, as you say.

]]> By: Anonymous http://afcmin.org/ateam/108/having-trouble-finding-%c2%93the-one%c2%94-for-you/comment-page-1#comment-318 Sun, 22 May 2005 05:35:00 +0000 http://afcmin.org/ateam/?p=108#comment-318 I fail to see Deut 17:17 to be a prohibition against polygamy. Quite the contrary, the context – not too many horses, not too much gold, not many wives – clearly leans toward the assumption that there will be more than one wife.
You all seem convinced that scripture does not endorse polygamy. I would appreciate your evidence regarding this, not only as a challenge, but I would appreciate knowing about it.
Amy, good clarification in Judges 21, but there is nothing in this prophetic history of the chapter saying that they were disobeying God, only that they did not have a king. In fact, it appeared to be the solution to the oath taking tribe wasting bind they were in.
You may make a point that we see the bad that came from polygamy in the patriarchs, but I fail to ever see God saying to them that they shoudn't take multiple wives, telling them it was wrong for them to do so, chastizing or punishing them for taking multiple wives. On the contrary, the writers treat polygamy as if it were an assumed and accepted practice.
Genesis 4 Lamech son of Methusela and grandson of blessed Enoch has two wives.
Genesis 28:8 Esau has multiple wives
Genesis 30: Jacob has two wives, with no hint that this displeases God or lacks in morality.
Deuteronomy 21:15 is perhaps the strongest endorsement. Right in a code of family laws, “If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love, 16 when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give…”
Judges 8:30 Gideon, a good but flawed leader had 70 wives.
Judges 12:8 I think you will grant that Ibzan, judge of Israel, had more than one wife as he had 30 sons and 30 daughters.
I Samuel 1:2 Samuels father had two wives (You remember their rivalry leading to his consecration to priestly service.)
I Samuel 25:43 David had multiple wives.
II Samuel 12:8 Saul did too.
II Samuel 12 Noteworthy in Nathan's rebuke of David, God speaks through Nathan to David of his multiple wives but never chastizes him for them (in contrast to his rebuke for killing Uriah the hittied for Bathsheba.)
II Samuel 19:5 David also had concubines.
I Kings 11, noting Solomons 700 wives and 300 concubines is a passage where God could clearly have at least hinted that he wanted only one wife. Instead, the clear admonishment is against him marrying from countries that God told them not to for they would lead their hearts away from God.
II Kings 24:15 Jehoiachin had multiple wives
I Chronicles 4:5, 17 in the geneology of the line of Judah, Ashhur and Mered are specifically noted to have more than one wife and nothing ill comes of it.
I Chronicles 7:4 implies the the men of Issaachar had many wives.
I Chronicles 8:8 Shaharaim divorces his wives. This could be serial monogamy, but given the others in the chronologies that seems less likely.
2 Chronicles 11 Rehaboam has 18 wives and 60 concubines.
II Chronicles 11:23, Rehaboam give many wives to the district leaders for political stability.
II Chronicles 13:21 King Abijah has 14 wives.
II Chronicles 21:17 Jehoram has many wives.
II Chronicles 24:2-3 Joah receives God's explicit statement of righteousness in one sentence, and then has two wives in the next. ” Joash did what was right in the eyes of the LORD all the years of Jehoiada the priest. 3 Jehoiada chose two wives for him, and he had sons and daughters.”
A couple of notes regarding this. The polygamists were not all kings. Those who were kings were admonished many times by God through the prophets, and not once that I am aware of were any of them admonished for having more than one wife. On the contrary, the family code seemed to assume some men would have more than one wife, and David and Joash were both Kings with many wives of whom God specifically said they did what was right in God's eyes.
Also, I hasten to add that I have no desire for more than one wife. Nor do I believe that it is God's ideal that we have more than one wife. My point, as I said before, is that there is not one unified concept of marriage that is carried throughout all of scripture. In particular, we are amis to ascribe our American Christian uderstanding of marriage as the “marriage of the bible”, as there is certainly more than one understanding of marriage in scripture – unless you don't find polygamy to be distinct from our present understanding of marriage.

]]> By: Anonymous http://afcmin.org/ateam/108/having-trouble-finding-%c2%93the-one%c2%94-for-you/comment-page-1#comment-317 Sat, 21 May 2005 20:40:00 +0000 http://afcmin.org/ateam/?p=108#comment-317 Christ has one bride.

]]> By: Anonymous http://afcmin.org/ateam/108/having-trouble-finding-%c2%93the-one%c2%94-for-you/comment-page-1#comment-316 Sat, 21 May 2005 19:35:00 +0000 http://afcmin.org/ateam/?p=108#comment-316 Amy said much of what I would say. God didn't favor men because they had multiple wives, He favored them in spite of their polygamy (and their overall sinful condition). Abraham's taking of a concubine was clearly against what God desired for Him. Whenever a commandment is given in Scripture concerning marriage it presumes that monogamy is best.

]]> By: Anonymous http://afcmin.org/ateam/108/having-trouble-finding-%c2%93the-one%c2%94-for-you/comment-page-1#comment-315 Sat, 21 May 2005 17:51:00 +0000 http://afcmin.org/ateam/?p=108#comment-315 Bill, good comments on the Jeremiah passage.
I have a couple of clarifications to add. The kidnapping scenario is in Judges 21 and didn't come from God. It's used to frame a book that shows how “everyone did what was right in his own eyes,” and is part of the example of how far the country had gone wrong.
Also, I wouldn't say that polygamy is endorsed. The Bible is clear about the problems that result from polygamy (we all know the pain that resulted from Israel's marriages). And when God laid out the guidelines for kings of Israel, he specifically said they were not to have many wives (Deut. 17:17). Solomon was actually disobeying in this area. So I would say that even though God did not forbid polygamy, we can gather that monogamy was preferred both because of the creation of one woman for Adam and the statements in the New Testament that the men in leadership should have only one wife each.

]]> By: Anonymous http://afcmin.org/ateam/108/having-trouble-finding-%c2%93the-one%c2%94-for-you/comment-page-1#comment-314 Sat, 21 May 2005 13:11:00 +0000 http://afcmin.org/ateam/?p=108#comment-314 Jeremiah 29:11 is oft interpreted to describe God's plans for us, and in an American individualistic Christianity, it is natural for people to look at verses such as this as though they are applying to them or any other individual, though it was clearly addressing God's chosen people as a whole.
I agree that scripture does not describe a set plan for each of our lives. Though I believe in the predestination of the elect, I do not believe scripture teaches wholistic determinism, or that God has a plan for every aspect of our lives. That being said, scripture does talk a great deal about God willing for us, for example Hebrews 13:20-21:
“May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

The very fact that we can say something is God's will for us, or God's calling in our lives describes if not exactly a plan, then a purpose and desire to use specific people in specific ways.
All that being said, scripture does not describe a particular spouse chosen for each of us. In fact, if we are honest in our interpretation of scripture, it endorses a number of engagement concepts that we would find abhorant in American Christianity such as polygamy. Several of the verses you quoted about marriage are attributed to Solomon who had many many wives. Israel had two wives, Abraham a wife and a concubine (a least for a few years.) Scripture is repleat with God favored people who had multiple wives.
I doubt we would favor kidnapping and pressing women into marriage(I can't recall the citation, but I expect you remember the story where one group needed wives so God directed Israel to look the other way if they kidnapped and took the daughters of another tribe to be their wives.
Many in American Christianity speaks of God's concepts for marriage as though our contemporary American understanding of marriage were the one image of marriage proclaimed in every era of scripture. That just isn't the case.

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