Comments on: Book Review: Sex and the Supremacy of Christ ed by. John Piper and Justin Taylor

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 02:56:00 +0000

Those of you who enjoyed Sex and the Supremacy of Christ might find this forthcoming book (endorsed by Al Mohler, John MacArthur, and others) to be of interest:
http://www.geocities.com/fivepaths/
Blessings,
Alex

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Mon, 13 Jun 2005 16:09:00 +0000

If I may offer one powerful passage – John 17:3. Here Jesus defines eternal life not in terms of length of life, but in terms of quality of relationship. “This is eternal life, that they may know you, the one true God, and Jesus Christ whom you sent.”
You are right, much modern evangelicalism fixates on the “personal” aspect of the relationship – to the detrement of the covenantal aspect. But make no mistake, God wants us to KNOW Him – personally, experientially, joyfully, covenantally, etc. etc.
I encourage you to take some time with Piper – I think you will find your heart warmed and encouraged.
Greg

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Jun 2005 08:04:00 +0000

“Doing what Jesus did and what he commanded for the sake of being obedient to Christ and participating in his kingdom work, rather than for one's own personal persuit of knowledge and relationship with Jesus Christ.”
Obeying Christ and participation in His kingdom work lead us to better know God in Christ.
“Feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the prisoner, caring for the widow not to know Christ, but because we were told that to do so is righteous.”
Matthew 25, whatever we do for them we do for Christ. Maybe a detail, but I can do nothing that is my righteous. Anything I do that is righteous is Christ's righteousness in me.
In regards to the personal relationship of American Evangelicalism, remember I'm the one saying God doesn't instant message us. I could be wrong, but I think we do find the pursuit of God throughout church history. They may not have used the same language, but I think the ideas are. Of course, I'm not much of a church history, so maybe someone else can pack or beat me up on this.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Jun 2005 02:34:00 +0000

Or to take it another way, what good thing is there that does not find its end in knowing God in Christ?

Some initial answers: Doing what Jesus did and what he commanded for the sake of being obedient to Christ and participating in his kingdom work, rather than for one's own personal persuit of knowledge and relationship with Jesus Christ.
Feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the prisoner, caring for the widow not to know Christ, but because we were told that to do so is righteous.
Here is the crux of my point. Having a personal relationship with God in Jesus Christ is a uniquely American Evangelical framework. It is not unbiblical, though I would genuinely appreciate someone showing me a significant list of passages to support the weight given to it. Others follow and server God, profess Jesus as Lord of life and savior of their sins, and yet do not understand knowing God in an intimate way or even in an experiencial way as a primary end – if a legitimate end at all. To offer a reformed example, I have no recollection of John Calvin supporting such an end in his institutes. There is a great deal of talk about knowledge of God, but it is always in reference to knowing God for salvation, nothing beyond that, not a personal relationship with God.
I'll stop there. I'd rather actually converse on this, and I'd be interested in your response.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Jun 2005 19:40:00 +0000

Coincidentally, I have just written a summary of ways of knowing on my blog.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Jun 2005 07:27:00 +0000

To quote Piper again, “God created us in his image, male and female, with personhood and sexual passions, so that when he comes to us in this world there would be these powerful words and images to describe the promises and the pleasures of our covenant relationship with him through Christ.”
Sexuality, according to Piper, gives us a framework from which we can understand how God relates to us. God's relationship to Israel was said to be like a husband and adulteress wife. Christ is seen as the groom and the Church His Bride.
On “knowing”- “And when I speak of knowing Christ, I mean it in the fullest biblical sense of grasping the truth about Christ, and growing in fellowship with Christ, and being satisfied with the supremacy of Christ.”
Piper points to several instances where “know” refers to sexual intercourse. Then he says “Now I don

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Jun 2005 03:31:00 +0000

I might add too, that I will agree that all good things find their end in God in Christ. I don't agree, though, that all good things find their end in knowing God in Christ, which seems a little self centered, and falls into a facet of modern evangelicalsim I might expect you to criticize. This would lead to a belief that the only good thing is more fully knowing God in Christ, and derivative activities that allow us to more fully know God in Christ.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Jun 2005 03:25:00 +0000

Could you spell out more then Roger how Piper explains that sexuality is a way to know Christ more fully? This is not an immediately apparent idea.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Jun 2005 02:59:00 +0000

Piper says, “the ultimate reason (not the only one) why we are sexual is to make God more deeply knowable.” (26) From what I can tell (though I've only read two short books by Piper aside from this), Piper holds knowing God in Christ as the ultimate end for any good thing. Yes, there are other good ends, but ultimately they are good because they point to God in Christ. If I try to find something else that is a legitimate end, say- feeding a starving family, I will have to ask why that is good. Inevitably anything that is good will lead us back to God in Christ, who is the end of all ends, since He is the beginner of all beginnings.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Jun 2005 01:36:00 +0000

Piper