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	<title>Comments on: Book Review: All Old Testament Laws Cancelled by Greg Gibson</title>
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		<title>By: Greg Gibson</title>
		<link>http://afcmin.org/ateam/781/book-review-all-old-testament-laws-cancelled-by-greg-gibson/comment-page-1#comment-3277</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Gibson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 04:39:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://afcmin.org/ateam/?p=781#comment-3277</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Roger, praise God for your honesty and humility.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger, praise God for your honesty and humility.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Overton</title>
		<link>http://afcmin.org/ateam/781/book-review-all-old-testament-laws-cancelled-by-greg-gibson/comment-page-1#comment-3276</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roger Overton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 04:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://afcmin.org/ateam/?p=781#comment-3276</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Greg,
While I think Col 2:14 speaking of our debt being canceled is a different matter from the law being canceled, I would say you&#039;ve convinced me that &quot;canceled&quot; is an appropriate way to refer to OC law. I would agree that it was both fulfilled and canceled. I would say that fulfillment entails that we are fully released from OC law, and part of that entailment is cancellation. I think the rest we will have to agree to disagree about...
I&#039;ve revised the review score to 8, since I think you&#039;ve defended yourself well here. Thank you for the charitable interaction.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Greg,<br />
While I think Col 2:14 speaking of our debt being canceled is a different matter from the law being canceled, I would say you&#8217;ve convinced me that &#8220;canceled&#8221; is an appropriate way to refer to OC law. I would agree that it was both fulfilled and canceled. I would say that fulfillment entails that we are fully released from OC law, and part of that entailment is cancellation. I think the rest we will have to agree to disagree about&#8230;<br />
I&#8217;ve revised the review score to 8, since I think you&#8217;ve defended yourself well here. Thank you for the charitable interaction.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Greg Gibson</title>
		<link>http://afcmin.org/ateam/781/book-review-all-old-testament-laws-cancelled-by-greg-gibson/comment-page-1#comment-3275</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Gibson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 02:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://afcmin.org/ateam/?p=781#comment-3275</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[P.S. Roger, sorry I forgot to write an intro. to my last post.
P.P.S. There are verses stating that individual prophecies of the law have been (past tense) fulfilled (Mt. 1:22, 2:15, etc.) But, I can&#039;t find one verse stating that the (whole) law is/was/has been (past tense) fulfilled. Can you?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S. Roger, sorry I forgot to write an intro. to my last post.<br />
P.P.S. There are verses stating that individual prophecies of the law have been (past tense) fulfilled (Mt. 1:22, 2:15, etc.) But, I can&#39;t find one verse stating that the (whole) law is/was/has been (past tense) fulfilled. Can you?</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Gibson</title>
		<link>http://afcmin.org/ateam/781/book-review-all-old-testament-laws-cancelled-by-greg-gibson/comment-page-1#comment-3274</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Gibson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 02:27:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://afcmin.org/ateam/?p=781#comment-3274</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;We journey into dangerous territory when we replace biblical terminology. The Bible never refers to the Old Covenant (or Testament) laws as cancelled...We should at least be able to agree that scripture does not explicitly teach your interpretation.&lt;/strong&gt;
I don&#039;t understand, why you don&#039;t the law was explicitly &quot;cancelled&quot; in these 4 verses?
&lt;blockquote&gt;1. &quot;...having forgiven us all our trespasses, by &lt;strong&gt;canceling&lt;/strong&gt; the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands&quot; (Col. 2:14). 
2. &quot;...by &lt;strong&gt;abolishing&lt;/strong&gt; the law of commandments and ordinances&quot; (Eph. 2:15). 
3. &quot;Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses&#039; face because of its glory, which &lt;strong&gt;was being brought to an end&lt;/strong&gt;...For if what &lt;strong&gt;was being brought to an end&lt;/strong&gt; came with glory...&quot; (2 Cor. 3:7, 11). 
4. &quot;...there is an &lt;strong&gt;annuling&lt;/strong&gt; of the former commandment...&quot; (Heb. 7:18, NKJV).&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Do I understand you correctly, that you believe that the law was merely fulfilled, but not also cancelled? If so, most scholars, including some Covenant Theologians, believe it was also cancelled (bold added below)...
&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;...Paul can claim in Eph. 2:15 that Christ has abolished &#039;in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations [dogmasin]&#039;...&lt;strong&gt;&#039;Abolish&#039; (katargeo)&lt;/strong&gt;...mean...it has been &lt;strong&gt;&#039;rendered powerless,&#039;&lt;/strong&gt; this is, &lt;strong&gt;ceases to stand&lt;/strong&gt; as an immediate authority for God&#039;s people. Somewhat parallel is Col. 2:14 where Paul speaks of Christ &#039;having &lt;strong&gt;canceled&lt;/strong&gt; the written code [cheirographon], with its regulations...&#039;&quot; (Doug Moo, Five Views on Law and Gospel, p. 367)
&quot;...&lt;strong&gt;&#039;canceled&lt;/strong&gt; the written code, with it regulations...Col. 2:14. That Paul here refers to the Mosaic law is probable [cf. the word dogmata, used also in Eph. 2:14]...Christ&#039;s cross &lt;strong&gt;cancels&lt;/strong&gt; the debt...&quot; (Moo, p. 85) 
&quot;The whole Law of Moses, as it functioned under the Old Covenant, &lt;strong&gt;has been abolished,&lt;/strong&gt; including the Ten Commandments&quot; (Barcellos, Defense of the Decalogue, p. 6).
&quot;...the Old Covenant and its law, as Old Covenant law, &lt;strong&gt;has been annulled&lt;/strong&gt; by Christ&#039;s death&quot; (Barcellos, p. 67).
&quot;The New Testament clearly &lt;strong&gt;abrogates&lt;/strong&gt; the whole Old Covenant, including the Decalogue, as it functioned within the Old Covenant...&quot; (Barcellos, p. 68).
&quot;How can the apostle declare that Christ &lt;strong&gt;abolished&lt;/strong&gt; the law when Christ himself in the Sermon on the Mount specifically declared the opposite...&quot; (Stott, Ephesians, p. 99)
&quot;The debt was impossible to pay, but God dealt with it; he had blotted it out and &lt;strong&gt;cancelled&lt;/strong&gt; the bond by nailing it to the cross&quot; (Peter O&#039;Brien, New Bible Commentary, p. 1271).
&quot;The earlier commandments in regard to sacrifice were &lt;strong&gt;abrogated&lt;/strong&gt;...&quot; (New Dict. of Biblical Theology, p. 636)
&quot;Through His death, Christ &lt;strong&gt;abolished&lt;/strong&gt; OT ceremonial laws, feasts, and sacrifices...&quot; (MacArthur Bible Comm., p. 1687)&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;The problem for me is the ambiguity of the word cancelled (since it can imply incompleteness).&lt;/strong&gt;
What do you mean by &quot;incompleteness?&quot; Are you assuming that the words &quot;fulfilled&quot; and &quot;cancelled&quot; must be synonyms? I see them as 2 different truths about the law. The law&#039;s contractual authority to bind us to obedience was cancelled. But, since what the law teaches is true, it&#039;s truths are still being fulfilled prophetically/typologically/eschatologically.
&lt;strong&gt;However, it does explicitly teach that Christ fulfilled the law.&lt;/strong&gt;
Notice when the law is completely fulfilled, not until the end of time: &quot;&lt;strong&gt;Until heaven and earth disappear&lt;/strong&gt;, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law &lt;strong&gt;until everything is accomplished&lt;/strong&gt;.&quot; (Mt. 5:18; cf. Lk. 16:17). So, parts of the law were/are/will be fulfilled past, present, and future. Parts of the law...
&lt;blockquote&gt;1. Were fulfilled in the past by Christ&#039;s 1st coming (Mt. 1:22, 2:15, etc.).
2. Are being fulfilled presently by the advance of His kingdom. (Lk. 24:44-49; Acts 2:16-21, 15:15-18, and all the OT prophecies about the Gentiles worshipping the Lord)
3. Will be fulfilled in the future by His 2nd coming and the restoration. (Is. 65:17 - 66:24; Ezek. 40-48; Dan. 12; etc.)&lt;/blockquote&gt;
So, the fulfillment of the law is a gradual process throughout church history, not a one-time event in ~30 A.D.
Therefore, I don&#039;t think that fulfillment can fully release us from obligation to obey Moses. Cancellation releases us from Moses. The law was cancelled in ~30 A.D. as a covenant/contract so that it&#039;s obligations are no longer binding. However, all that it teaches is still true, so that it is still being fulfilled prophetically/eschatologically today until heaven and earth pass away.
&lt;strong&gt;the Noahic Covenant applies to all of Noah]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>We journey into dangerous territory when we replace biblical terminology. The Bible never refers to the Old Covenant (or Testament) laws as cancelled&#8230;We should at least be able to agree that scripture does not explicitly teach your interpretation.</strong><br />
I don&#39;t understand, why you don&#39;t the law was explicitly &#8220;cancelled&#8221; in these 4 verses?</p>
<blockquote><p>1. &#8220;&#8230;having forgiven us all our trespasses, by <strong>canceling</strong> the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands&#8221; (Col. 2:14).<br />
2. &#8220;&#8230;by <strong>abolishing</strong> the law of commandments and ordinances&#8221; (Eph. 2:15).<br />
3. &#8220;Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses&#39; face because of its glory, which <strong>was being brought to an end</strong>&#8230;For if what <strong>was being brought to an end</strong> came with glory&#8230;&#8221; (2 Cor. 3:7, 11).<br />
4. &#8220;&#8230;there is an <strong>annuling</strong> of the former commandment&#8230;&#8221; (Heb. 7:18, NKJV).</p></blockquote>
<p>Do I understand you correctly, that you believe that the law was merely fulfilled, but not also cancelled? If so, most scholars, including some Covenant Theologians, believe it was also cancelled (bold added below)&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;&#8230;Paul can claim in Eph. 2:15 that Christ has abolished &#39;in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations [dogmasin]&#39;&#8230;<strong>&#39;Abolish&#39; (katargeo)</strong>&#8230;mean&#8230;it has been <strong>&#39;rendered powerless,&#39;</strong> this is, <strong>ceases to stand</strong> as an immediate authority for God&#39;s people. Somewhat parallel is Col. 2:14 where Paul speaks of Christ &#39;having <strong>canceled</strong> the written code [cheirographon], with its regulations&#8230;&#39;&#8221; (Doug Moo, Five Views on Law and Gospel, p. 367)<br />
&#8220;&#8230;<strong>&#39;canceled</strong> the written code, with it regulations&#8230;Col. 2:14. That Paul here refers to the Mosaic law is probable [cf. the word dogmata, used also in Eph. 2:14]&#8230;Christ&#39;s cross <strong>cancels</strong> the debt&#8230;&#8221; (Moo, p. 85)<br />
&#8220;The whole Law of Moses, as it functioned under the Old Covenant, <strong>has been abolished,</strong> including the Ten Commandments&#8221; (Barcellos, Defense of the Decalogue, p. 6).<br />
&#8220;&#8230;the Old Covenant and its law, as Old Covenant law, <strong>has been annulled</strong> by Christ&#39;s death&#8221; (Barcellos, p. 67).<br />
&#8220;The New Testament clearly <strong>abrogates</strong> the whole Old Covenant, including the Decalogue, as it functioned within the Old Covenant&#8230;&#8221; (Barcellos, p. 68).<br />
&#8220;How can the apostle declare that Christ <strong>abolished</strong> the law when Christ himself in the Sermon on the Mount specifically declared the opposite&#8230;&#8221; (Stott, Ephesians, p. 99)<br />
&#8220;The debt was impossible to pay, but God dealt with it; he had blotted it out and <strong>cancelled</strong> the bond by nailing it to the cross&#8221; (Peter O&#39;Brien, New Bible Commentary, p. 1271).<br />
&#8220;The earlier commandments in regard to sacrifice were <strong>abrogated</strong>&#8230;&#8221; (New Dict. of Biblical Theology, p. 636)<br />
&#8220;Through His death, Christ <strong>abolished</strong> OT ceremonial laws, feasts, and sacrifices&#8230;&#8221; (MacArthur Bible Comm., p. 1687)</p></blockquote>
<p><strong>The problem for me is the ambiguity of the word cancelled (since it can imply incompleteness).</strong><br />
What do you mean by &#8220;incompleteness?&#8221; Are you assuming that the words &#8220;fulfilled&#8221; and &#8220;cancelled&#8221; must be synonyms? I see them as 2 different truths about the law. The law&#39;s contractual authority to bind us to obedience was cancelled. But, since what the law teaches is true, it&#39;s truths are still being fulfilled prophetically/typologically/eschatologically.<br />
<strong>However, it does explicitly teach that Christ fulfilled the law.</strong><br />
Notice when the law is completely fulfilled, not until the end of time: &#8220;<strong>Until heaven and earth disappear</strong>, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law <strong>until everything is accomplished</strong>.&#8221; (Mt. 5:18; cf. Lk. 16:17). So, parts of the law were/are/will be fulfilled past, present, and future. Parts of the law&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>1. Were fulfilled in the past by Christ&#39;s 1st coming (Mt. 1:22, 2:15, etc.).<br />
2. Are being fulfilled presently by the advance of His kingdom. (Lk. 24:44-49; Acts 2:16-21, 15:15-18, and all the OT prophecies about the Gentiles worshipping the Lord)<br />
3. Will be fulfilled in the future by His 2nd coming and the restoration. (Is. 65:17 &#8211; 66:24; Ezek. 40-48; Dan. 12; etc.)</p></blockquote>
<p>So, the fulfillment of the law is a gradual process throughout church history, not a one-time event in ~30 A.D.<br />
Therefore, I don&#39;t think that fulfillment can fully release us from obligation to obey Moses. Cancellation releases us from Moses. The law was cancelled in ~30 A.D. as a covenant/contract so that it&#39;s obligations are no longer binding. However, all that it teaches is still true, so that it is still being fulfilled prophetically/eschatologically today until heaven and earth pass away.<br />
<strong>the Noahic Covenant applies to all of Noah</strong></p>
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		<title>By: Roger N Overton</title>
		<link>http://afcmin.org/ateam/781/book-review-all-old-testament-laws-cancelled-by-greg-gibson/comment-page-1#comment-3273</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roger N Overton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 01:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://afcmin.org/ateam/?p=781#comment-3273</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Greg,

I apologize for the amount of time it’s taken me to reply to you. I haven’t had time available to give to the blog lately (apparently none of us have).

First, I think I should clarify that my criticisms are not of the title of the book per se. I wouldn’t knock points off a review simply for a poor title. However, I think the title does a good job summing up two significant points of the book that I disagree with, which is why I pointed to it in my criticism.

Second, I stand by my points. While I appreciate the arguments you’ve made here (which from what I can tell are the same as are in your book), I remain unconvinced of your conclusions for using the word “cancelled” and that it is applied to all Old Testament laws.

We do agree that all Old Covenant laws have been brought to an end in Christ and they no longer bear any authority over Christians. While I think your interpretation of Matt 5:17/Rom 3:31/Eph 2:15/1 Cor. 3:7 has some warrant, I’m not completely convinced. We should at least be able to agree that scripture does not explicitly teach your interpretation. However, it does explicitly teach that Christ fulfilled the law. Therefore, it seems more reasonable to me, as well as safer, to primarily refer to the law as fulfilled. As far as I know, there is no contention about whether or not Christ fulfilled the law. The problem for me is the ambiguity of the word cancelled (since it can imply incompleteness).

Gen 9:6 seems to clearly be a command against murder, in my opinion. I may be going out on a limb here, but it seems to me that the Noahic Covenant applies to all of Noah’s descendents, and since everyone is under Noah’s genealogy, the terms of that covenant apply to both Jew and Gentile. God is therefore just to hold the “heathen” to Gen 9:6 as they are under that covenant like the rest of us.

Regarding chapter 13, I think most of your points are insufficient grounds for concluding that Genesis is part of the Old Covenant law that was fulfilled. The one point that would be sufficient is that “covenant produces canon.” I’m not convinced this is the case, because if it were so, God’s covenants with Noah, Abraham, and Moses would have produced multiple canons. However, I have yet to read Kline’s argument for this apart from your summary of it.

I think you make an interesting argument in chapter 16 regarding the foundation of the apostles and prophets for the church. However, I don’t see it results in all of the Old Testament laws being cancelled. As you argue, there is a law written on the conscience of man that transcends OC and NC laws. If your argument in chapter 16 applies to all OT laws, then I do not see why it would not also apply to the law written on the conscience of men.

In response to the list of “pre-Sinai” laws you cited:
I have no reason to doubt that Gen 9:1 still applies today.

Circumcision of the flesh clearly is not law for today (ex. Acts 15, 1 Cor 7, Gal 5)
I think it’s safe to infer that the Passover foreshadowed the Lord’s Supper
I haven’t considered the consecration of the firstborn- I’ll have to give that more thought
The Sabbath in Ex. 16 appears to be part of the OC.

I do appreciate you taking the time to interact here, Greg. We do agree about far more than we disagree, and though we arrive at our practice from some different interpretations, it seems to me that we end up at the same place for how Christians ought to live.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Greg,</p>
<p>I apologize for the amount of time it’s taken me to reply to you. I haven’t had time available to give to the blog lately (apparently none of us have).</p>
<p>First, I think I should clarify that my criticisms are not of the title of the book per se. I wouldn’t knock points off a review simply for a poor title. However, I think the title does a good job summing up two significant points of the book that I disagree with, which is why I pointed to it in my criticism.</p>
<p>Second, I stand by my points. While I appreciate the arguments you’ve made here (which from what I can tell are the same as are in your book), I remain unconvinced of your conclusions for using the word “cancelled” and that it is applied to all Old Testament laws.</p>
<p>We do agree that all Old Covenant laws have been brought to an end in Christ and they no longer bear any authority over Christians. While I think your interpretation of Matt 5:17/Rom 3:31/Eph 2:15/1 Cor. 3:7 has some warrant, I’m not completely convinced. We should at least be able to agree that scripture does not explicitly teach your interpretation. However, it does explicitly teach that Christ fulfilled the law. Therefore, it seems more reasonable to me, as well as safer, to primarily refer to the law as fulfilled. As far as I know, there is no contention about whether or not Christ fulfilled the law. The problem for me is the ambiguity of the word cancelled (since it can imply incompleteness).</p>
<p>Gen 9:6 seems to clearly be a command against murder, in my opinion. I may be going out on a limb here, but it seems to me that the Noahic Covenant applies to all of Noah’s descendents, and since everyone is under Noah’s genealogy, the terms of that covenant apply to both Jew and Gentile. God is therefore just to hold the “heathen” to Gen 9:6 as they are under that covenant like the rest of us.</p>
<p>Regarding chapter 13, I think most of your points are insufficient grounds for concluding that Genesis is part of the Old Covenant law that was fulfilled. The one point that would be sufficient is that “covenant produces canon.” I’m not convinced this is the case, because if it were so, God’s covenants with Noah, Abraham, and Moses would have produced multiple canons. However, I have yet to read Kline’s argument for this apart from your summary of it.</p>
<p>I think you make an interesting argument in chapter 16 regarding the foundation of the apostles and prophets for the church. However, I don’t see it results in all of the Old Testament laws being cancelled. As you argue, there is a law written on the conscience of man that transcends OC and NC laws. If your argument in chapter 16 applies to all OT laws, then I do not see why it would not also apply to the law written on the conscience of men.</p>
<p>In response to the list of “pre-Sinai” laws you cited:<br />
I have no reason to doubt that Gen 9:1 still applies today.</p>
<p>Circumcision of the flesh clearly is not law for today (ex. Acts 15, 1 Cor 7, Gal 5)<br />
I think it’s safe to infer that the Passover foreshadowed the Lord’s Supper<br />
I haven’t considered the consecration of the firstborn- I’ll have to give that more thought<br />
The Sabbath in Ex. 16 appears to be part of the OC.</p>
<p>I do appreciate you taking the time to interact here, Greg. We do agree about far more than we disagree, and though we arrive at our practice from some different interpretations, it seems to me that we end up at the same place for how Christians ought to live.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Gibson</title>
		<link>http://afcmin.org/ateam/781/book-review-all-old-testament-laws-cancelled-by-greg-gibson/comment-page-1#comment-3271</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Gibson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 01:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://afcmin.org/ateam/?p=781#comment-3271</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brandon, 
I&#039;m sorry I misunderstood your question. 
I call the law that all humans are responsible to obey &quot;conscience law,&quot; instead of &quot;moral law.&quot; And, I see it defined in the sin lists for all humans (including the Gentiles), not the Decalogue (Lev. 18:1-30; Rom. 1:18-32; 1 Cor. 6:9-10; Gal. 5:19-21; Rev. 21:8, 22:15; etc.) 
You can see this explained in more detail in the 3, free chapters excerpted on my website, especially pp. 14-20. If that doesn&#039;t answer your questions, let me know...
P.S. Roger, does my explanation of the title qualify for a re-rating of that 6 out of 10? :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brandon,<br />
I&#39;m sorry I misunderstood your question.<br />
I call the law that all humans are responsible to obey &#8220;conscience law,&#8221; instead of &#8220;moral law.&#8221; And, I see it defined in the sin lists for all humans (including the Gentiles), not the Decalogue (Lev. 18:1-30; Rom. 1:18-32; 1 Cor. 6:9-10; Gal. 5:19-21; Rev. 21:8, 22:15; etc.)<br />
You can see this explained in more detail in the 3, free chapters excerpted on my website, especially pp. 14-20. If that doesn&#39;t answer your questions, let me know&#8230;<br />
P.S. Roger, does my explanation of the title qualify for a re-rating of that 6 out of 10? <img src="http://afcmin.org/ateam/wp-includes/images/smilies/simple-smile.png" alt=":-)" class="wp-smiley" style="height: 1em; max-height: 1em;" /></p>
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		<title>By: Brandon Adams</title>
		<link>http://afcmin.org/ateam/781/book-review-all-old-testament-laws-cancelled-by-greg-gibson/comment-page-1#comment-3270</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brandon Adams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 00:16:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://afcmin.org/ateam/?p=781#comment-3270</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Greg. My question was more directed towards the law that is written on the hearts of all men (Rom 2:15), not just members of the New Covenant. Which law would you say that is, and would you say that law has ever changed?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Greg. My question was more directed towards the law that is written on the hearts of all men (Rom 2:15), not just members of the New Covenant. Which law would you say that is, and would you say that law has ever changed?</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Gibson</title>
		<link>http://afcmin.org/ateam/781/book-review-all-old-testament-laws-cancelled-by-greg-gibson/comment-page-1#comment-3267</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Gibson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 00:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://afcmin.org/ateam/?p=781#comment-3267</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi David,
&lt;strong&gt;If he doesn&#039;t want to use the term &quot;covenant of grace&quot;, what sort of unity is he talking about? Can you give me a better idea of what a &quot;unity of plan&quot; means? And in what way is &quot;one plan, two covenants&quot; different from &quot;one covenant, two dispensations&quot;?&lt;/strong&gt;
I believe the unity of the Scriptures is seen in 2 ways:
1. One unified purpose/plan of grace in eternity past (contra Dispensationalism&#039;s 2 purposes: One for Israel and one for the Church).
2. One unified way of salvation for all time (by grace, through faith in Messiah).
Here is a quote from the book:
&quot;Do you mean there&#039;s one covenant of grace, or one purpose of grace?...So, the unity of God&#039;s purpose (and the unity of the Scriptures) are true. But, there is diversity in God&#039;s 2 major covenants.&quot; See &quot;Is There a Covenant of Grace?&quot; by Jon Zens here: http://www.searchingtogether.org/articles/zens/covenant.htm]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi David,<br />
<strong>If he doesn&#39;t want to use the term &#8220;covenant of grace&#8221;, what sort of unity is he talking about? Can you give me a better idea of what a &#8220;unity of plan&#8221; means? And in what way is &#8220;one plan, two covenants&#8221; different from &#8220;one covenant, two dispensations&#8221;?</strong><br />
I believe the unity of the Scriptures is seen in 2 ways:<br />
1. One unified purpose/plan of grace in eternity past (contra Dispensationalism&#39;s 2 purposes: One for Israel and one for the Church).<br />
2. One unified way of salvation for all time (by grace, through faith in Messiah).<br />
Here is a quote from the book:<br />
&#8220;Do you mean there&#39;s one covenant of grace, or one purpose of grace?&#8230;So, the unity of God&#39;s purpose (and the unity of the Scriptures) are true. But, there is diversity in God&#39;s 2 major covenants.&#8221; See &#8220;Is There a Covenant of Grace?&#8221; by Jon Zens here: <a href="http://www.searchingtogether.org/articles/zens/covenant.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.searchingtogether.org/articles/zens/covenant.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Greg Gibson</title>
		<link>http://afcmin.org/ateam/781/book-review-all-old-testament-laws-cancelled-by-greg-gibson/comment-page-1#comment-3269</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Gibson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 00:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://afcmin.org/ateam/?p=781#comment-3269</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Brandon
&lt;strong&gt;Does he address by what law Christ was counted righteous and therefore under what law the Christian is counted righteous?&lt;/strong&gt;
Are you referring to the imputation of Christ&#039;s active obedience? If so, no I didn&#039;t go into that. The book is more about which commands to obey.
&lt;strong&gt;Also, does he explain what law is written on the hearts of all men?&lt;/strong&gt;
Yes, I wrote 2 chapters about the law written on the heart.
9 Objections to All OT Laws Are Cancelled:
Chapter 3. &quot;But, the Law Is Written on the Heart in the New Covenant&quot; 
(I attempted to refute Covenant Theology&#039;s view that this law is the Decalogue.)
3 Objections to All NT Laws Are for Our Obedience:
Chapter 20.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Brandon<br />
<strong>Does he address by what law Christ was counted righteous and therefore under what law the Christian is counted righteous?</strong><br />
Are you referring to the imputation of Christ&#39;s active obedience? If so, no I didn&#39;t go into that. The book is more about which commands to obey.<br />
<strong>Also, does he explain what law is written on the hearts of all men?</strong><br />
Yes, I wrote 2 chapters about the law written on the heart.<br />
9 Objections to All OT Laws Are Cancelled:<br />
Chapter 3. &#8220;But, the Law Is Written on the Heart in the New Covenant&#8221;<br />
(I attempted to refute Covenant Theology&#39;s view that this law is the Decalogue.)<br />
3 Objections to All NT Laws Are for Our Obedience:<br />
Chapter 20.</p>
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		<title>By: David N</title>
		<link>http://afcmin.org/ateam/781/book-review-all-old-testament-laws-cancelled-by-greg-gibson/comment-page-1#comment-3266</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David N]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 04:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://afcmin.org/ateam/?p=781#comment-3266</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree that the NT clearly speaks of two covenants, New and Old, but the reason I asked what Gibson thinks &quot;Old&quot; is referring to is that there seems to be a major difference between the covenant God makes with Abraham and the covenant made at Sinai.  I agree that &quot;old covenant&quot; refers to Sinai, but that doesn&#039;t negate the possibility of there being an administration of the covenant of grace in the OT, namely the covenant with Abraham.  This is why I mentioned in my last comment that the Reformed position is actually not that the &quot;old&quot; and &quot;new&quot; covenants are the same, because the Reformed recognize the temporary and provisional nature of Sinai and fully agree that Sinai was rescinded because it was a conditional covenant and Israel failed to perfectly meet the conditions.  When the Reformed speak of the unity of the covenant of grace, then, they are saying (minimally) that Abraham was justified and attained salvation in the exact same way as the elect do under the new covenant.  More specifically, the Reformed believe that the covenant of works and the covenant of grace run parallel throughout redemptive history as the outworking of the &quot;covenant of redemption&quot; that the Father made with the Son and the Spirit in eternity past.  ....Such is my horribly simplistic summary of covenant theology!  Haha.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that the NT clearly speaks of two covenants, New and Old, but the reason I asked what Gibson thinks &#8220;Old&#8221; is referring to is that there seems to be a major difference between the covenant God makes with Abraham and the covenant made at Sinai.  I agree that &#8220;old covenant&#8221; refers to Sinai, but that doesn&#39;t negate the possibility of there being an administration of the covenant of grace in the OT, namely the covenant with Abraham.  This is why I mentioned in my last comment that the Reformed position is actually not that the &#8220;old&#8221; and &#8220;new&#8221; covenants are the same, because the Reformed recognize the temporary and provisional nature of Sinai and fully agree that Sinai was rescinded because it was a conditional covenant and Israel failed to perfectly meet the conditions.  When the Reformed speak of the unity of the covenant of grace, then, they are saying (minimally) that Abraham was justified and attained salvation in the exact same way as the elect do under the new covenant.  More specifically, the Reformed believe that the covenant of works and the covenant of grace run parallel throughout redemptive history as the outworking of the &#8220;covenant of redemption&#8221; that the Father made with the Son and the Spirit in eternity past.  &#8230;.Such is my horribly simplistic summary of covenant theology!  Haha.</p>
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