Interview with Richard Abanes- Part One: Marketing

Date July 26, 2005 Posted by Roger Overton

This is Part One of my four-part interview with Richard Abanes. Please feel free to interact with Richard in the comment section. My questions are in blue; his answers are in back.

First of all, thank you for taking the time to speak to this controversial issue. There seems to be an idea out there that your book, Rick Warren and the Purpose that Drives Him, is part of Purpose Driven Life (hereafter PDL) marketing scheme; that you're some sort of puppet for Rick Warren. What really motivated you to write this book and to whom is it written?

Let me be perfectly clear about something that I think needs to be said—I do NOT speak for Rick Warren, Saddleback Church, or purpose driven ministries. I am NOT an official spokesperson for anyone but myself. Second, no one—including Warren—had any control over the book's content (nor did anyone, including Warren, ask me to write the book). In other words, my book is NOT part of purpose driven anything. My book about Warren is just the latest in a long list of books that I have written about religious issues affecting the church, our culture, and the faith. It's a volume that I felt needed to be written.

Now, in answer to your specific question about my “motivation,” I decided to write my book for the same reason I have decided to write any of my other books—i.e., because I felt like there needed to be a clear presentation of accurate information on the subject. My personal writing ministry is dedicated to offering solid, documented, concise, and user-friendly material that people can use to make thoughtful/godly decisions about various issues: e.g., the end-times, near death experiences, the militias in America, The Da Vinci Code, and Harry Potter.

As with these particular topics, the subject of Rick Warren had become confused, messy, and weighted down with lies, gossip, rumors, and full-blown urban legends. It was disturbing to see false accusations being made against a movement, a man, and a ministry that was bringing so many people into God's kingdom. I felt like someone had to step up to the plate and say, “Wait a minute, folks. Here's the real scoop. You need to separate fact from fiction when it comes to Warren, Saddleback Church, and Warren's purpose driven model for church health.”

It still amazes me how so many people now, even after various accusations have been proved false, are continuing to just repeat what they apparently WANT to be true about Warren—e.g., that he never talks about sin, that he thinks doctrine is unimportant, that he was mentored by Robert Schuller. The latter accusation, of course, has now become nothing less than an urban legend very akin to the Proctor & Gamble Satanism rumor (http://www.bibleistrue.com/roarlion/nlpg0999.htm) or the Madeline Murray O'Hare FCC petition rumor (see http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/madalyn_ohare.htm).

Expressing legitimate concerns and keeping them in perspective is one thing. Such discussions are not only valid, but also important and needed. But making wild accusations against a fellow Christian to the point of calling him (or her) a liar, a non-Christian, a false teacher, a deceiver, or a New Ager is quite another thing. It is sin—plain and simple. And people who have made such false accusations need to be held accountable, especially the more influential critics of Warren such as John MacArthur, Todd Wilken, and Greg Koukl—three men whose ministries have done a great deal of good. But now their irresponsible accusations about Warren have really caused me to question their motives and their concerns for truth. At the very least, they have been terrifically careless in making the comments that they have made. I deal with some of their accusations in my book. Truth—that is what is important.

My book is written to anyone interested in: a) Warren's life (I offer a mini-biography of his life, his ministry, and the founding of Saddleback); and/or b) the most common criticisms be made against Warren's teachings, Saddleback Church, the purpose-driven life concept, and seeker sensitive church services (which, by the way, can vary dramatically from church to church—some “seeker” services some churches are not wholly biblical).

I'll be getting back to Greg Koukl's comments later, but before we talk about the criticisms of the content let's talk about marketing. Tim Challies has written a few posts now on how PDL and related ministries have been marketed using “Pyromarketing.”

Well, since I had nothing to do with the marketing of Warren's book, this is a very difficult issue for me to deal with. I am an outsider at this point, rather than an insider. I have only read what you have read. I was not present in any meetings that dealt with the best way to market Warren's book. I have not discussed the marketing of the book with Warren, Zondervan, purpose driven, or any other insider. So, I really can't say what is going on internally regarding this issue.

But this question does bring up a very interesting question that I would like to pose to your readers: How critical are we to be of Warren? When it comes to the marketing of Warren's book and criticisms over it, I am left scratching my head in wonder. Let's say for the sake of discussion that pyro-marketing was indeed used as has been discussed in various other forums. So what? Do people really think that Warren's book is the only Christian book to ever be marketed? Goodness! I have written 15 books and every single one of them have been marketed in different ways, depending on the target audience, varying according to the subject matter, based on market studies, etc. etc. etc. And this holds true for EVERY author—R.C. Sproul, John MacArhur, John Piper, Max Lucado, Philip Yancy, Hank Hanegraaff—you name the author. That's just the book publishing industry (both secular and Christian). Truly, I am not sure why there is so much fuss being made over this so-called pyro-marketing. It's simply a great idea to get a product (in this case, a book) into the hands of a lot of people. So what

Tim Challies said, “this approach takes advantages of Christians, foisting on them products, books and services that we do not need!”

This is like saying cultists are utterly brainwashed into doing really horrible things, which basically lets them off the proverbially hook of accountability/culpability. I don't buy that (no pun intended). In other words, nobody held a gun to anyone's head and said, “Buy The Purpose Driven Life, or else.” People saw it, heard about it, had it recommended to them, felt like they wanted, and bought it. Nobody twisted anybody's arm. I don't think a book, or any product for that matter, from soft-soap to DVD players, can be foisted upon someone in the truest sense of the word.

Also, who is to say what we do or  don't need? Who is the arbiter of what is necessary for every Christian? I was just at the International Christian Retailers Association convention in Denver—talk about items we don't need! I saw socks with fish embroidery on them, ties with crosses, coffee mugs covered with trite Jesus sayings, and T-shirts with radical Christ promotions emblazoned across the front. And all of them, in my opinion were being foisted upon the crowds. I say, “So what?” It's not my cup of tea, so I'm not going to buy that stuff. But hey, if the guy or gal sitting next to me at church wants a “Jesus Tie,” then they can go for it. I hope they enjoy it. Now let's pour some coffee into that Jesus mug and get down to serving Christ together. Likewise, if someone wants to buy/read a book (by Warren or anybody), then read it—or don't. As for marketing, there are numerous ways to market numerous things including said books. That's not a crime. And it certainly is not unbiblical.

If Zondervan used pyro-marketing for The Purpose Driven Life, which it
seems to have done, I personally have no problem with that. It's America—the marketing capital of the world. In fact, in my newest book Harry Potter, Narnia, and The Lord of the Rings, I talk about the marketing of Harry Potter and how experts were able to get the word out in such a way as to create a “market” for that product. I'm just glad that unlike Harry Potter, Warren's book points people to Jesus Christ and has brought a lot of people into the Kingdom of God. Why is everyone so upset about that? I have no idea.

Is there a Biblical problem with how PDL has been marketed and if so, did Rick Warren have anything to do with it>

First, I am not altogether sure exactly how PDL was marketed, although it seems that pyro-marketing was involved somewhere. But allow me to stress that the question you asked here cannot really be answered except by someone who really knows precisely how PDL was marketed (e.g., someone from Zondervan). I do not have any first-hand information about how the book was marketed. But as an outside observer I certainly don't see any problems. Second, as for Rick Warren's involvement, let me be extremely clear, I HAVE NO IDEA what he did or did not have to do with the marketing of the book. You'd have to ask Rick.

Category Posted in Interviews, Main Page, Miscellaneous, Roger's Posts Comments 5 Comments »

Rick Warren and the Purpose-Driven Controversy

Date July 26, 2005 Posted by Roger Overton

This week I'll be posting my interview with Richard Abanes, author of the new book Rick Warren and the Purpose that Drives Him.
Richard has written numerous books on subjects ranging from Mormon
history, the occult, the Da Vinci Code, and end-time visions- just to
name a few topics. I'll be posting Part One of the interview tommorow,
but in the meantime there's plenty of reading out there on the
subject…



Richard Abanes has posted a large handful of responses to critics on his site- Information About Rick Warren.



Tim Challies has challenged the marketing used to promote The Purpose Driven Life.



Lighthouse Trails Research Project has criticized Warren for being associated with the Emerging Church, Robert Schuller, and Ken Blanchard. They also don't like his Global P.E.A.C.E. plan.



Here are several articles against Rick Warren's theology and use of Scripture.



My Fortress has very extensive writings against Rick Warren on a number of levels.



Greg Koukl mentions the “40 Days of Purpose” program in his commentary on seeker-centered churches.

Category Posted in Main Page, Miscellaneous, Roger's Posts Comments No Comments »

Revenge of the Links

Date July 25, 2005 Posted by Roger Overton

Timbo's posted an excellent comparison of Brian McLaren and Buddhist philosopher Ken Wilber. This is a must read for anyone interested in the Emergent discussion.

Daniel Fischelli's posted a great post on what it means for someone to be a fundamentalist Muslim.

I've linked to the great music of Molly Jenson before. Now you can buy her full-length CD online! It's very professional and of course the music is extraordinary.

Clete Hux, of the Apologetics Resource Center, examines the modalistic heresy of T.D. Jakes.

Meet me in Pennsylvania! STR's sponsoring the conference Reason for the Hope Within November 17-19 (immediately following the ETS conference).

Nick Reddin's started a great new blog- Monergism. Hmmm… that tagline looks awfully familiar.

I've expanded our link lists on the left and right sides. Now we link
to most people who link to us. In other A-Team news, I will be
announcing a logo contest in a few days. Stay tuned…

Category Posted in Main Page, Miscellaneous, Roger's Posts Comments 3 Comments »

Modern Reformation #6: Conversation Partners- An Interview with Brian McLaren

Date July 25, 2005 Posted by Roger Overton

This is the final feature of the latest issue of Modern
Reformation on the Emergent Church. I believe this interview with Brian McLaren
was recorded and played on White Horse Inn some time ago, but I’m not certain.
It sounds similar anyway.

When asked “What is orthodoxy and who gets to define it?”
Mr. McLaren immediately started talking about power. “One of the great insights
of postmodern philosophy is to pay attention to the power relationships that
are involved in all discourse… unfortunately the word “orthodoxy” has so often
been related to who has the power to tell other people what to do.” (49) So
often? Maybe by a perverse maniac who kills thousands of people (Hitler, I’m
guessing, thought of himself as orthodox). Perhaps a case could be made that
“orthodoxy” has been used to exclude people who shouldn’t have been excluded,
but “the power to tell other people what to do?” I don’t think I’ve heard that
one before.

Although Brian McLaren likes to use the postmodern language
of abusive power structures, he does “think there are legitimate spheres of
authority. So the leaders of a local church have to decide who they’re going to
let in and for what purposes.” (49-50) I’ve commented before, I believe in
response to the “Official Emergent Response to Critics”, that this language of
“letting people in” is prejudiced. It makes the role of church leadership in
protecting the flock sound petty- as though they might not let people with pink
hair into the church because it’d be a distraction. Some churches are petty,
but this is an unfair mischaracterization of the church in general.

“We let people into our membership who are in sync with our
vision, mission, and values as wells as our understanding of the gospel. And we
have a good bit of latitude in that, but a Mormon won’t want to be part of our
church as a member. But that’s where I just think for this to all work we have
to respect that different communities have different standards. And though they
might have different standards, that might be good.” (50) So it’s good that
Mormons have different standards? I know he claims to not be a relativist, but
this sure looks and smells like relativism.

Back to the power plays again… When asked “Which in your
opinion is worse, liberalism or fundamentalism?” Brian McLaren responded,
“Well, whoever has the most power and weapons is the most dangerous… to me it
is like choosing between lung cancer and leukemia.” (51) Apparently it doesn’t
matter who’s right? Maybe the Liberals are right, but since they have a lot of
power they’re bad. A few questions later he states, “The Christian religion is
the biggest religion in the world.” (52) Following his reasoning, the Christian
religion is bad because it has a lot of power. Think I’m being unfair? Try this
one on for size…

He was asked,” You mentioned in one of your talks that
you thought fundamentalist Christians were more dangerous than fundamentalist
Muslims. Could you unpack that?” Brian McLaren answered, “Well it’s not because
I think they’re more wrong, but that they have more power. And so when you have
a lot of power, you can do more damage.” I haven’t seen very many Christians
blowing up subways, buildings, hotels, or buses lately. Power can produce
damage, but it doesn’t do so necessarily. God is quite powerful, and can cause
the most devastating damage. But since He’s a good and just God we are left
with no legitimate complaints about what He destroys. He is good, but not safe.
It does matter who’s right. Our hope shouldn’t be that powerful people are
weakened, but that good people under direction of God are placed in positions
of power and that they’ll utilize that power to His glory.

Category Posted in Culture, Emerging / Emergent Church, Main Page, Roger's Posts, Theology Comments 8 Comments »

Book Review: Deceived on Purpose by Warren Smith

Date July 25, 2005 Posted by Roger Overton

By now, most Christians and many non-Christians in America
today have both heard of and read The Purpose-Driven Life by Rick
Warren. It has remained a top seller across the country, with sales intensified
by non-denominational church marketing programs. Both of the churches I’ve been
a member of utilized the program, “40 Days of Purpose”, to ignite passion for
doing God’s work in the world. But as with most successful things, there has
been much criticism of Warren’s “purpose-driven” ministry.

Warren Smith brings several of these criticisms to bear in
his book Deceived on Purpose: The New Age Implications of the Purpose-Driven
Church. Since Mr. Smith was once part of the New Age movement, it would
seem he is amply qualified to discern when New Age ideas are invading the
Christian Church. From his background, Mr. Smith draws heavily on the works of
several popular New Age gurus and teachers.

Through the fifteen chapters of the book, Mr. Smith attempts
to build a case connecting Rick Warren to these popular New Age advocates, most
prominently through his relationship with Robert Schuller. Since Robert
Schuller has associated himself with New Age teachers and teachings, and since
Rick Warren has been deeply influenced by Robert Schuller, he contends, Rick
Warren is teaching New Age spirituality.

Mr. Smith claims, “Rick Warren is not the “victim” of any
“guilt by association.”” (174) However, the only evidence that Mr. Smith is
able to offer is completely circumstantial. He banks on the fact Rick Warren
drove from Texas to California in 1979 to attend one of Schuller’s conferences,
but there’s no real evidence that what he learned there was New Age
spirituality. He aptly notes several times that Robert Schuller is never
mentioned in The Purpose-Driven Life. There’s probably a good reason for
that; probably he didn’t have much of anything to do with it.

Something Mr. Smith loves to do is take a word or phrase
from Rick Warren out of context and claim it comes from New Age thinkers. This
method accounts for most of the book. For example, Chapter 7 is all about “What
Force Drives Your Life?” He quotes Warren, “What is the driving force of your
life?” then goes on to offer similar uses of “driving” and “force” in the New
Age writings of Neale Donald Walsch and Maitreya (an anti-Christ). I doubt,
however, these were the first men to ever use those words. Mr. Smith completely
disregards what Rick Warren is talking about and does make him guilty by
association- association of using the same language with no causal connections.

The only really substantive point against Rick Warren Mr.
Smith ever makes is on page 75. “The use of overlapping New Age words can
create great confusion about what is really being said, and can easily lead to
great deception down the line. Specific definitions of words are so very
important.” I think Rick Warren could have been more careful in a few specific
word uses, however, Mr. Smith should have been more careful to do his research
accurately.

Warren Smith is incredibly knowledgeable about New Age
teachings. I found his analysis of their material to be similar to my own
research in that area. He also makes a convincing case showing Robert
Schuller’s involvement with New Age teachings. However, he fails to show how
any of that relates at all to Rick Warren. While I’m encouraged that Mr. Smith
was saved out of the New Age movement, the way he self-importantly describes
his experiences and frequently quotes his previous writings became nauseating.
This is a helpful book for understanding the New Age and Robert Schuller, but
not Rick Warren. If there is a substantive case against Rick Warren and his “purpose-driven”
ministry, it must be found elsewhere.

Category Posted in Book Reviews, Main Page, Roger's Posts Comments 7 Comments »

Modern Reformation #4: Experiencing Emergent by Shane Rosenthal

Date July 23, 2005 Posted by Roger Overton

Shane Rosenthal went to this year’s Emergent Church
convention down in San Diego to figure out what it’s all about. He put his
experiences in print in this month’s issue of Modern Reformation. He was also
interviewed about it on Issues Etc. back in April, the audio is listed on April
24th.

Mr. Rosenthal recounts his impressions of the conference-
the music, hairstyles, and atmosphere. “The average conference attendee
appeared to be a suburban white male, between the ages of eighteen and thirty.
Of course, he was a little more hip than average, often sporting a tattoo, body
piercing, and mustache-free goatee.” (29)

He talked to several people about why they were and there
and what it was all about. “I asked Sally Morganthaler, a popular author and
worship leader in Emergent circles, about the use of these learning techniques
that reminded me of elementary school [“arts and crafts, projectors and small
group share sessions”]. She said, “Yes, it’s a constructivist methodology, so
we’re utilizing some of the newer adult learning theory that’s out there now.””
(29)

Not really satisfied he understood what was going on, Mr.
Rosenthal attended Tim Keel’s seminar “What is Emergent?” Apparently the seminar
was mostly an interactive biography of the people in the room. When it did
start going somewhere substantive, Tim Keel began saying some increasingly
disturbing things… “People call and they want our doctrinal statement and I
refuse to give one out. You know why? Because its shorthand. It says, Oh,
that’s the kind of community you are.” (32)

“He spoke candidly about his idea that evangelism was a
myth, and that we’re not really called to go reach or target people. “I don’t
believe in any of those things, because what it does is make the church about
something. I believe that what we are called to do is have an experience of
God, an experience of Christ that at the primary level shapes our identity as
beloved.””(34) Several people expressed frustration about not getting it. Mr.
Keel agreed that it’s tough, stating, “any church that is being animated by
God’s Spirit ought to be freakin’ messy.” (34)

Mr. Rosenthal leaves some great points in summary. First,
Emergent’s criticisms of modernistic Evangelicalism is often valid. “Having
failed to define ourselves by Christ’s story, our churches look like
entertainment centers, self-help seminars, political rallies, and Kiwanis
clubs. Most of us do not really know the person in the pew sitting next to us,
and we have failed to live noticeably different lives than those of our
non-Christian neighbors.” (35)

However, Emergent’s not much better. “I fear the
Emergent Church fails to give us much lasting benefit. Labyrinths, yoga, and
prayer sculpting (to give only a few examples) might make us feel better for
the moment, but we need medicine of a stronger sort. Burning incense might help
cover up the dark smell of a church facility, but it will not ultimately lead
to reformation… We need Christ: We need to be caught up in his story,
rather than our own. We need to better understand his Word and his
mission for the church, not our own Cain-like attempts at Spirituality.” (35)

Category Posted in Emerging / Emergent Church, Main Page, Roger's Posts Comments 3 Comments »

The Art of Idolatry

Date July 22, 2005 Posted by Roger Overton

Our friend Doug TenNapel posted today on the depravity of
Christian art. The entire post is worth reading as he makes some excellent
points. It’s worth noting that non-Christian art isn’t typically great either,
but it’s usually better. There is one excellent point he makes that goes far
beyond art:

“Christians should embrace the arts, not because God is
calling you to do it. Every time a Christian farts he has to turn it into
God's will and this just seems to me like another form of Paganism. God isn't a
magic genie. His big goal in life is not to make children's TV shows that only
exist to sell fruit roll-ups and happy meals. To attach God to everything I do
fails to elevate what I do, it just reduces God to what I wish he would be
instead of what he is.”

Too often if things are going well for us, or we just feel
good about something, we say that God called us to such and such. The problem
is that the Bible never talks this way. In the Bible, people are called either
through the audible voice of God or by the gifts God has given them (which is
usually the same category). Most Christians attribute calling to God when
neither of these are the case. A guy I know moved his family to work at a
church where he felt God had called him. His family is now well provided for
and he has a good position and plenty of friends. The problem is that he’s no
good at what he does. The ministry he runs isn’t really effective at anything
other than giving people a place to hang out. I love this brother dearly, but
based on his gifts, I’d say God didn’t really call him to this.

As Doug rightly points out, when we put God into
something we do or feel, when He’s not already there, we reduce Him to a magic
genie. God isn’t a cosmic PEZ dispenser we can pop whenever we want to impress
someone that we have a PEZ dispenser (something I do often with my Super Mario
PEZ). We have a tendency to baptize our feelings and actions in religious
language in ways that are contrary to Scripture. In the process we make God to
be like us, making Him submit to whatever we want. This isn’t good calling, spirituality,
or surrender to Christ. This is idolatry.

Category Posted in Main Page, Roger's Posts, Theology Comments 1 Comment »

Controlling the Nurturing Instinct

Date July 22, 2005 Posted by Amy Hall

The discussion here on “True Compassion” took an interesting turn.  Are men better equipped to be leaders because they’re more objective?  There’s no question that women can submit their emotions to reason; but in general, this is harder for us and easier for men.  Therefore, in general, men are better at being objective when it comes to discipline and encouraging maturity.  (I say “in general” because, obviously, a particular man or woman can fall anywhere along the emotion/reason spectrum.)  If any of you have children, you will see as they get older how the father becomes more and more important in the disciplinary process.  More than one man has lamented to me that his mother didn’t allow his father to discipline him as he should have.

 

Growing up, I used to think the world would be a better place if women were in charge.  I’ve realized since that this is not remotely true.  Why did I change my mind?  All I had to do was look at institutions dominated by women and see what’s going on there.  Take the public schools, for example.  All sorts of crazy rules have taken hold in various places–including banning dodgeball and not using red pens to correct papers (because it’s too harsh and might hurt someone’s feelings).  Everyone must be protected from all pain.  I’ve even heard of a tee ball league in one school district that only allows teams to reach a certain score; if a team exceeds the set number of runs and people continue to cross home plate, they start taking points away.  They don’t want anyone to feel bad, so they pervert justice.  People aren’t allowed to win and be rewarded for hard work because the others might feel bad about themselves.  Hard work is discouraged (because rewards are removed…or passed around equally), and narcissism is rampant.

 

I truly believe that all of these policies of discouraging competition and enforcing equality to protect people’s feelings are hurting our society in the long run.  Further, it seems these types of policies abound when women are predominantly in charge.  Justice suffers when the nurturing instinct is not kept in check.  I think the increase in the influence of the unchecked nurturing instinct partly explains why we have a weak society where people are “offended” by everything and can’t stand anyone telling them they’re wrong.  They were always protected and never had to stand up for themselves, so they never matured.

 

This doesn’t mean I don’t think women play an important role in every institution.  Without the input of women, you end up with violent oppressive societies.  The answer is for women to be involved, encouraging empathy and sensitivity, but submitting to rational policies that encourage growth and maturity.  If we women understand and accept the fact that the nurturing instinct is not always correct but must be submitted to objective reason and justice, we can be very capable leaders; but if we ignore this and allow our instinct to reign, the result will be injustice and a spoiled nation with weak character.

 

Of course, in other areas of life, there are situations where the gifts of women are far more valuable and appropriate than those of men, but that is a different post altogether.

Category Posted in Amy's Posts, Culture, Gender Issues, Main Page, Politics Comments 3 Comments »

Modern Reformation #5: Emergent Church Roundtable Discussion

Date July 21, 2005 Posted by Roger Overton

Yes, I know I skipped #4. Stop thinking everything has to be
in such modernistic order! Actually, the roundtable discussion was recorded and
was broadcasted last Sunday on the White Horse Inn radio show. It’ll be
available to listen to for free through this Sunday, so I wanted to make sure
y’all would have enough time to listen to it. In the magazine, it is
transcribed to 11 pages, around 45 minutes on audio. One thing I found to be
odd was that the transcript and audio didn’t always match up. A few comments
were in one form but not the other.

In this roundtable discussion Michael Horton discusses the
Emergent movement with three Southern Californian pastors- two lean Reformed
and one is Lutheran (Missouri Synod). Overall, I agreed with most of what the
pastors said. From what I heard and read, these men are translating the Gospel
to people in a fallen culture without compromising it. Below are three quotes I
really liked. They’re all from the Lutheran, Charlie Mallie, but everyone
seemed to be in general agreement…

“There needs to be a connection between doctrine and
practice. And so often the way in which something is presented conveys part of
the meaning. It would be sort of inappropriate to convey the glories of the
resurrection of that Sunday after Good Friday with sort of a commercial jingle.
I think there is something missing there.” (43)

Me too. The church I left earlier this year turned their
Easter service into a commercial for the church. It was rather disgusting. I
think Christ’s resurrection was mentioned somewhere in it, but mostly in a way
of pointing to themselves to say- “Look what’s going on here!” instead of
Christ being the center and focus.

“Everybody understands that “God is everywhere.” And
while it is true that God is everywhere, he is not everywhere to save. And he
is present to save only where he has revealed himself to be present to save.
And at least scripturally, those places are very narrow. In his Word, in the
waters of baptism, and in the Supper. I think when we go on a journey we are
seeking God, we might want to realize that perhaps he saved us a lot of the
work. And he’s given us a road map to say, “Here I am.” (45)

I realize Pastor Mallie has some Lutheran understandings
that are very different from mine in regards to the role of baptism and the
Supper in salvation, but this was said in the context of worshipping God on His
terms rather than our own. Instead of worshipping God in ways we feel good
about (like these “Punks for Christ”- video shows commercial before starting), God’s already told us how He wants to be
worshipped and that He’ll bless us when we worship on His terms.

“I think that our pastors need to start their week by
praying and translation the Scriptures from the original languages and trying
to, as I had a wonderful professor who once said, “Think yourself empty and
read yourself full.” I know none of us can really do that—start with a blank
slate. But the point is to let the Scriptures come to you in such a way where
the power of God’s Word is speaking.” (46)

Amen. That pastors would preach the Word instead of
their personal stories and self-help therapies.

Category Posted in Culture, Emerging / Emergent Church, Main Page, Roger's Posts, Theology Comments No Comments »

Book Review: Beyond the Shadowlands by Wayne Martindale

Date July 20, 2005 Posted by Roger Overton

“There have been times when I think we do not desire heaven, but more often I find myself wondering whether, in our heart of hearts, we have ever desired anything else.” The writings of C.S. Lewis have captivated the hearts and minds of many people, even spurring some to belief in the Son of God. He will be brought to the spotlight this fall with the theatrical release of the first Chronicle of Narnia. I’ve always found The Last Battle, the final volume of the Chronicles, to be the most rousing and magical, because of Lewis’ creative perspective of Heaven.

Lewis considered the earthly life the Shadowlands. In Beyond the Shadowlands Wayne Martindale examines Lewis’s thoughts on the afterlife, on Heaven and Hell. “In thinking about why I have been afraid of going to Heaven or have desired it so little, I have identified seven myths or false ideas I have held about it at one time or another and that Lewis’s thinking has helped dispel.” (16) He also examines six myths about Hell that Lewis brought clarity to.

In Part One (one chapter) of Heaven Dr. Martindale shows how Lewis took on each of the seven myths he once held. These include “Heaven Will Be Boring”, “What! No Sex?”, and “Just a Harp and Crown Trip.” In Part Two (six chapters) he highlights Heaven in the fictional works of Lewis. As he puts it, after demythologizing the misconceptions, Lewis brings clarity by remythologizing the truths of Heaven into his writings.

In Part One (one chapter) of Hell Dr. Martindale shows how Lewis dealt with six common myths about Hell including- “A Good God Wouldn’t Send Anyone to Hell,” “A Physical Hell Would Be Cruel,” and “No One Could Be Happy in Heaven Knowing Some Are in Hell.” In Part Two (five chapters) he highlights Hell in the fictional works of Lewis.

There is also a chapter dealing with the issue of Purgatory in Lewis’s writings followed by an Epilogue. I would say that in the chapter on Purgatory I learned the most about Lewis. I’d assumed that when Lewis mentioned Purgatory he meant in the “Romish” sense (as he put it), but he actually didn’t like Rome’s doctrine.

While this book is obviously focused on the works of C.S. Lewis, it felt more like a book on Heaven and Hell with a helpful friend pointing out the details and enriching perspectives (Lewis through Martindale). Extensive knowledge of Lewis’s works are not required since Martindale sets up each work through summary and reflection. When I picked it up I was afraid that it would be merely a collection of Lewis quotes- that would be easier to read in his books. Quite the contrary, Martindale’s created an independent work that brings Lewis back to life for a delightful interview on what really amounts to the good and evil around us. In relation to the growing collection of volumes written on the life and works of C.S. Lewis, Beyond the Shadowlands will long remain as an incredibly significant contribution to our understanding of Lewis.

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